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The late 2009 campaign is over. You can sign up for the next one.
Our members in the Phoenix area asked the following questions in our previous campaign
How is the federal income tax credit treated; specifically does it also reduce Alternative Minimum Tax liability?
One Block Off the Grid does not give tax advice and you should always consult a tax professional regarding tax questions. That being said, according to the Solar Energy Industries of America, new legislation passed in October of 2008 “allows individual taxpayers to use the credit to offset AMT liability, and to carry unused credits forward to the next succeeding taxable year.”
What I need to know, at this time, is do the estimators need to come inside one’s home for any reason… as opposed to just checking your roof, etc. The reason I ask is that that would make a difference in the time-line of having an estimate done. My home is presently a WRECK, and I don’t allow ANYONE in, unless I have time to deal with making it presentable to outsiders!?
The solar consultant will need to see your electrical meter. Other than that you could go over your proposal and system design in an area other than your home.
What programs are available to help off-set or minimize the amount of money needed to install a solar system?
There are three main programs that help off-set the cost of going solar. First, there is a rebate from the utility. Second, there is a tax credit from the federal government. And third, there is a state tax credit. The rebate for the utility APS is $3.00/ DC watt up to 25,000 watts and the rebate for utility SRP is $2.70/DC watt up to 5000 watts. The federal tax credit is for 30% of the out-of-pocket cost of the system. The state tax credit is $1000 bucks. (We are not tax experts, so please consult your tax professional before acting on any of this information).
What program do you use to calculate the Kwh the panels will provide? What factors do you use for the overall DC to AC derate factor? Who makes the solar panels and DC to AC convertor?
REC uses PV Watts version 2 to calculate the kWh the system will provide, as does the 1BOG solar estimation tool. The derate factor varies based upon tilt, orientation, and shading factors. Each project will have a different derate factor. The solar panels are made by the REC Group (click here) and the inverter (converts DC power to AC) is made by SMA (click here) or Enphase (click here). We also offer a higher efficiency Sanyo panel for customers with space constrictions.
Do you have any lease programs?
Yes! Our partner, SunRun offers solar leasing in the Phoenix area. Homeowners can get affordable solar electricity with SunRun Solar Power Purchase Agreement Plan for only $1,000 down and start saving money on electricity from day one. You’ll pay every month for your solar energy from SunRun and enjoy SunRun’s premium service benefits and Full System Management. The average monthly SunRun payment is $75 for a 5.0kW system and increases 1.9% each year over the 18 year lease agreement.
Can wind power be incorporated in the system?
No. Wind power can hypothetically be incorporated into your home energy production system, however, One Block Off the Grid is not currently doing any group purchases of wind power generation systems. We plan on offering more big-ticket sustainable home improvements and products, but do not currently have the bandwidth to offer these items at this time.
I have 2 spaces on my flat roof right now making solar hot water. they are 10 X 21 ft and 10 X 33 ft. I am considering replacing those systems with photo voltaic. can you give me a rough idea as to the electric production from those two spaces and the approximate total cost to put in solar electric.
Best thing would be to use the 1BOG solar estimation tool, zoom in as far as you can, and then draw where the panels currently are, one at a time, to get an estimate for each area. Also, the rep from REC will be able to provide you a quote for both those exact areas and give you exact measurements on production.
REC Group is not a well-recognized name in solar panel manufacturing. What is the R&D that REC ever did in solar panels – I am not talking about searching for a manufacturer. Why then your panels are so expensive that the end price is $5.70 per Watt?
I think a lot of the confusion here is that REC group (the panel manufacturer) is a different company than REC solar. Also, $5.70 is a very strong deal on a turnkey solar system, and would be an awful deal for the panels themselves. REC Group is a vertically integrated manufacturer (and they are huge) which allows them to sell raw silicon or ingots, as well as being able to lock down forecasting for raw material costs for their manufacturing of modules. Basically, as far as financial stability goes, there are few manufacturers that are in this tier. We did a poll once and found that almost no one can name a panel manufacturer, which is a large part of why we exist.
What is the accounting behind the price of 5.70$/W
Not 100% sure I’m answering this in the way you’re looking for, but $5.70/watt is turnkey, meaning there’s no hidden or future costs. That is a customer-facing cost. The only caveat is the necessity of an additional costs list, of which some items may apply to homes. Every home is different so it’s impossible to make it completely flat, or it creates weird friction in the program where our partner would be incentivized against doing certain homes. This protects against that, and the cool thing is that it’s transparent and fixed, so there can be no bait and switch.
Under the leasing option, do we report any rebates that sunrun gets on our income taxes.
Again, we’re not allowed to give tax advice so, as always consult your tax professional. However, basically, no. If SunRun is receiving the incentives themselves, it is their own tax liability, not yours.
In your proposals you assume that APS will raise rates by 5.5% year after year. They have not raised rates until last year in the 19 previous years where in fact they reduced rates in several years. What makes you think they will raise rates every year at 5.5%
You are correct we assume an annual increase of 5.5%. Our estimate tool runs off historics across the US, and we assume there will be necessary rate increases over the long run that work out to about this, but yah, APS has been very strong in the past on this front and have not raised rates a lot.
What are the average yearly maintance costs of a typical system?
Solar doesn’t have any moving parts and requires very low maintenance. You don’t lose much by letting the rain do most of the work, but you definitely have to remove debris like leaves or heavy dust. If you are interested in maintenance, SunRun provides a total solar program in which they take care of all of that. In other words, maintenance costs are mostly nil, although your inverter will likely require replacement during the lifetime of the system (probably averaging around 15 years from now). They will likely be much cheaper at that point than they are today, but if you want to be conservative, assume 5% of total cost of system maintenance costs over the system’s lifetime.
How do I estimate the payback (ROI) on this?
Everyone does it differently. In broad strokes, you want to look at the net cost of the system versus both the value of electricity replaced and the opportunity cost of the money spent. Unfortunately, this is why not a lot of people have solar in the first place. It’s a solid financial investment, but a difficult proposition for the average consumer to crunch. The rep from REC will be able to get into their calculations in detail. There is always the SunRun option if you are not interested in evaluating the ROI of a cash purchase. You can just pay $1000 down and have a lower electrical bill moving forward. The math gets a lot easier at that point.
What happens when I need to repair my roof? Can the panels be easily removed and replaced?
Yes. It’s not that expensive to pop the panels off to re-roof and replace them. REC can speak to costs. They remove the panels, the roofer repairs your roof and reseals the posts, and they place them back on. Solar panels, weirdly enough, protect your roof from sun and rain. If the roof is old, REC will recommend replacing it first.
I have 2 questions. The first being HOA. I have heard that my HOA will allow solar,but it will not allow the blck panels.Only the ones that blend into my cookie cutter house.Do you work with my HOA and have you had resistance from HOA about using black pnels opposed to lighter color panels that blend into the roof. My second question is, if there is a problem with my HOA, can the panels be installed on my back block wall? It of course is further away from my electric meter, but it will then be not seen from my roof and the HOA wont see it to have a problem. Is the cost much more than on a roof?
Check with REC on the details of the HOA. In short, it is possible to work with them. Ground-mounted systems are routinely done, and do cost a little extra. Additional costs here. It will require a “ground mount,” and probably some trenching (to get the conduit to the meter in an aesthetically pleasing fashion).
My utility is APS. Is there a cap on how much excess electricity I can produce with solar panels and still be reimbursed at the 7.6 cents/kWh rate
There is no cap on the amount of electricity APS purchases from the customer per their agreement with the ACC (Arizona Corporation Commission). However, they do cap the amount of rebate paid out per meter at $75,000. Also and more importantly, purchasing a system with the intent to vastly overproduce is not the best financial decision as the rate that is paid back by APS is at that lower wholesale rate.
How does panel efficiency change with temperature, especially with the extreme summer heat in Phoenix?
Heat negatively effects panels, but it is more than compensated for by the massive amount of sun. Almost all panels are affected equally by heat despite the fact that almost all marketing materials claim their panels work better in high heat. Production lost can be 7-9% in the absolute hottest temperatures, but this is made up for by longer days and more intense sunlight. Production, even with the heat, can be 14-16% greater than a similar location in San Diego. The quotes from REC take all these into consideration and the systems will outperform the quotes. Also, the higher efficiency panel options (mostly used on roofs where you want to maximize the space available) have a thin film component on top of a normal panel component, and they are particularly heat resistant.
Do you need to come out to the house for a site evaluation to take a look at my roof before receiving an actual bid for my house?
You CAN purchase a system over the phone, but someone will eventually have to visit the site to verify the quote (look inside at the electrical meter and other things).
What is the turn around time from saying yes lets do it to installation?
Our current lead time is about 14 weeks. However, the large number of systems from the 1BOG program will extend this quite a bit over the next few weeks.
Let me know if you would like me to further clarify any of these answers or if you come up with others.
If my house faces east and west will panels be put on both sides of house to get the west sun also?
Up to you and your motivations. If it’s perfectly E – W, then W will perform slightly better. REC can provide you with a quote for either side or both and you can compare.
How much efficiency is lost from dust, debris on the panals? How are they kept clean?
Minor dust will have a minor impact, but they should be kept clean if possible. Larger debris, if in the right place, can have a very large impact to system production and needs to be removed.
If power from APS is lost during the day will power from the solar system be available?
In short, no. These are grid-tied systems, which is good because it allows you to sell your power back to the grid. But because of that, if the power is down, it’s not safe to be pushing power out back to the lines people are working on, and so your inverter will recognize the grid is down and shut the system off until it’s back up. This rarely happens, and the most economical solution is to just get a generator for a few hundred bucks if you are concerned about power outages.
If I start the process, by signing the paperwork & puitting my $$ down, and the full analysis determines that the system will cost more than my personal estimate, is the money refundable?
There’s no commitment at any point until you sign a contract with REC and make a deposit. If, after that, for some reason the cost changes from the quote they have given you, (for example they find that they have to replace the electrical service), than you will have an out of your contract. You’ll need to get the details on this from the REC rep before you sign so you feel comfortable before moving forward. In short, I think you are asking can you get a quote for 10K, make a deposit, and then find out it’s going to be 20K and be stuck with it…. the answer to that is no.
Can you monitor the system yourself?
Yes, REC has a monitoring system you can purchase which will allow you to monitor your solar system from the web. $900 bucks. The inverter itself will always read out what’s going on with the system itself (for free), and it’s up to you if think you’re going to want 100% access to the information or if you’re just going to run down to the inverter and check on it once in a while.
Will these panels not generate 100% of need?
Depends on how much electricity you use, how much roof space you have, and your budget. A good percentage of the homes in Phoenix probably cannot eliminate 100% of their usage with a system, but you can still eliminate as much usage as you can.
I already have solar hot water – how will this affect the system i already have installed?
They are completely independent, the only issue is they compete for roof space. If you are happy with it you will likely keep it. Solar thermal systems are easier to move.
What is the life expectancy of the panels?
There is a 25 year production guarantee. The electrical production will degrade about half a percent a year. Historically you’ll get about 10% loss over that 25 year period. That’s not bad. Also, it’s likely that they will live on quite a bit after that as well. They’re essentially made from sand when you think about it, and they don’t have any moving parts, so they are extremely durable.
What is the cell type?
answer coming…
What are the dimensions?
You can find spec sheets for the panels on the campaign details page.
What about financing options do you know the APR?
SunRun is the financing option in this program and the REC rep can provide you with a SunRun quote which will show you all the financials over time.
Will hail damage the panels?
They’re extremely strong. If you drop them off a roof they can break sure, but they are rated to withstand a golf ball sized hail at terminal velocity. They are also rated to withstand 120MPH winds, and anything stronger than that you may have bigger problems then the solar panels blowing off probably.
What is the efficiency % of each panel? What is the weight of each panel? Watts @ STC per panel?
You can find spec sheets for the panels on the campaign details page and it will detail the efficiency of each panel, as well as the inverter.
What do you mean by a 1BOG member, is that someone who did install solar or just joined for more information?
What it means is that you’ve signed up at our website and we provide you with information and answer your questions. If you decide you want to get a solar evaluation from our installation partner, we’ll pass your information to them for a formal home evaluation. There’s no commitment.
To get the discounted prices from REC are you assuming a minimum amount of customers? If you get less will you still have a program with possibly higher per watt prices?
Nope, this is the deal, we’ve negotiated that price up front.
Does a standard homeowners policy usually cover solar panels? If not can you give an idea as to how much the added premium would be to make sure they are covered?
We can’t speak on behalf of insurance companies, but if you look at past customers, often they call up the insurance company to tell them about the system, and it does not change the premium. It does sometimes slightly increase a deductible, but it’s rare and a small.
In case you do not cover it in the financing section I have a question about payback periods if I finance my purchase. My plan would be to get a home equity loan to help pay for the system, how can I figure that into my projected payback time for the installation?
Incentives are very strong in Arizona, and the payback period will be strong. However, it will be dependent upon your roof, budget, current utility rates, cost of money if you are using equity. A quote from REC will give you an exact understanding of our ROI, and our solar estimate tool is a great ballpark as well.
I have heard that people are claiming a tax credit versus the total system cost (including subsidy) pending IRS clarification. Do you know if any IRS decision has yet been made?
We can’t give tax advice (sorry I know I’ve said that 30 times on this page) but my understanding is the tax credit should be based on your out of pocket costs. In all other markets solar is quoted this way, Phoenix is, for some reason, the only anomaly where companies quote it on the GROSS cost. REC solar does not do this, they will quote the tax benefits the same way that we would and do on our estimate tool (30% of out-of-pocket).
If the system is not producing due to mechanical problems, we still have a monthly bill, how to we recoup the money back guarantee?
If the system is not producing what it should, it should be covered under REC or the manufacturer’s warranty, and you should make sure that you understand all the implications of those warranties and feel comfortable before moving forward. The rep from REC can get into those details.
If I have been talking to SunRun, where do they come into play?
SunRun has the same purchase price as 1BOG does for this program (assuming you are a 1BOG member), and so their proposal will be based off that price and should look strong. You can get a SunRun proposal from the REC rep.
If panels are damaged in summer monsoon storms, you guys will replace?
See the hail question above, but it is very unlikely to be damaged by weather, and is likely covered under warranty. You can get all the details of the REC and manufacturers warranties from your REC rep.
Why does the SunRun monthly rate increase by 1.9% a year?
That’s just how their product is structured. They want to be able to offer you day 1 savings, and they could structure it as a flat cost over 18 years but they would have to have higher monthly costs in day 1.
Help me understand – we are SRP, so would be limited to a 5 KW system. Per my bill, during peak summer heat, I use 2,500 KWh per month. How much of a benefit am I going to see from a 5 KW system?
The short answer is it’s not going to knock out a giant portion of your bill, but for the portion it does knock out, it’s a financial slam dunk with the subsidies available. You can go over 5kW to offset more usage, but the financials will not look at strong the larger you go past 5kW.
How many KW can I install and still recieve the full $3.00 per KW?
You can go up to a massive system, I believe up to $75,000 maximum subsidy, and it is unlikely you will go that big, that would be a very very large residential system.
I read about individual panel monitors. How much are they? and do you have them?
They’re an option, yes, I think you’re talking about Enphase, which is an inverter for each panel instead of one large string inverter. The cost is .60/Watt extra.
Which APS rate would be best?
Good question. After you go solar, you may change your electrical rate and the REC rep will be able to advise you on which rate to move to, and incorporate that information in their quote to you.
Great job with the seminar especially the info from John re: REC and the various installation questions. Much of the 1BOG info was familar from the excellent web site so for me at least less time could have been spent covering that, so more could be spent on questions. But overall very good.
We should have budgeted more time for questions. But I’m answering them all here now, just a little later.
We are snowbirds, usually absent from AZ from May through Sept. Our property is in Happy Trails, an RV resort, but we own our lot. Since we are out of AZ five or so months per year, how does this affect our needs for system size?
If you have your historic electrical usage data, that’s all you need and the rep can design the perfect system based off of those needs. In short, you will be credited for the electricity you produce while you are away which you can use to offset your usage when you get back.
I just looked over my electric bills over the past 12 months and because we live in an RV about 6 months a year my bills are very low. (972.72 for a year.) I have a lot of interest, and a perfect location, but is it reasonable? I built an active solar home in Maine in 1977, and a geothermal home in Ky in 1996. The first was a disaster, the 2nd was a success.
The subsidies in APS and SRP are very strong when coupled with the Federal tax credit and State tax credit. Solar makes sense for almost everyone in Phoenix who gets sun and has space for a system.
We also want to install air conditioning (we now have a swamp cooler) and would like to know how to co-ordinate that.
REC can work estimates in to what electricity usage the AC will create, and accommodate for that in their quote.
We are gone 5 months during the summer, how do we pick an APS rate to be on?
After you go solar, you may change your electrical rate and the REC rep will be able to advise you on which rate to move to, and incorporate that information in their quote to you.
